Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/11/2003 03:33 PM Senate RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                  SB 50-ROYALTY GAS CONTRACTS                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN informed members that  a proposed committee substitute                                                               
had been  prepared, Version I,  which is essentially the  same as                                                               
the House Finance Committee substitute to HB 57.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER moved to adopt  Version I as the working document                                                               
of the committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  objected for  the  purpose  of discussion.  He  then                                                               
informed  participants  that  he  did  not  intend  to  move  the                                                               
legislation  from   committee  today  because  Version   I  makes                                                               
substantive  changes  to  the  last   version  of  the  bill.  In                                                               
addition, an amendment has been proposed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARY  JACKSON, staff  to Senator Wagoner,  sponsor of  SB 50,                                                               
verified  that Version  I is  the companion  legislation to  CSHB
57(FIN), which  is in  the House  Rules Committee.  She explained                                                               
the differences in Version I as follows:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   · On page 2, the merged utility and manufacturing language                                                                   
     was separated  into two subsections, (1)(A)  and (1)(B). New                                                               
     language was added  to line 23 that reads,   "for a contract                                                               
     entered into for a circumstance  described in (1)(A) of this                                                               
     subsection."  Section (1)(A)  is specific  to the  utilities                                                               
     and is  existing language  in statute.  Section 1(B)  is new                                                               
     and   contains  the   requirements   for  manufacturers   of                                                               
     agricultural  chemicals. She  told  members that  separating                                                               
     the  requirements of  utilities and  manufacturers into  two                                                               
     sections reads more clearly.                                                                                               
   · On page 3, line 9, the word "and" was changed to "or"; the                                                                 
     net result being that any one of the exceptions would come                                                                 
     into play, rather than all of them. That change was                                                                        
     recommended by the Administration.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  JACKSON  said  Chair  Ogan   previously  asked  whether  the                                                               
legislation  contains a  mechanism to  allow the  commissioner to                                                               
negotiate a contract  so that the State of Alaska  would share in                                                               
the profit as  well as the risk. She said  such a provision would                                                               
lead to  a better fiscal  note and  told members the  sponsor has                                                               
provided   a  proposed   amendment  on   that  subject   for  the                                                               
committee's consideration.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS referred to Section 2(B)(ii)  on lines 5, 6 and 7                                                               
of page 3 and asked why  it contains the words "tangible benefits                                                               
to the state" and differs from Section (2)(A)(ii) on page 2.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  JACKSON  explained  that  Section   (2)(A)  applies  to  the                                                               
utilities.  Section (2)(B)  is new  [and  applies to  value-added                                                               
manufacturers].   Those  words   were  added   so  that   if  the                                                               
commissioner determined  that a  royalty reduction would  lead to                                                               
certain  benefits related  to  employment  opportunities or  some                                                               
other  unknown  tangible  benefit,   the  commissioner  could  go                                                               
forward with a contract.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said he thought tangible  benefits were included                                                               
in respect to the manufacturer, not just the utility.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. JACKSON said that is correct.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said the two  sections seem to  be contradictory                                                               
in terms of tangible benefits.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. JACKSON  referred Senator Stevens  to subsection (A)  on page                                                               
2,  regarding  the  utilities  contracts.  She  pointed  out  the                                                               
language that  begins on line 26  is the same as  the language on                                                               
page 3,  line 5, however  it is  specific to the  manufacturer of                                                               
agricultural chemicals.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS asked  if  that language  is  more aligned  with                                                               
subsection (A) than it was in the last version.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. JACKSON  said it is  essentially the  same; it has  just been                                                               
separated into two sections.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said he thought the  commissioner could consider                                                               
royalty reductions  by offsetting other tangible  benefits in the                                                               
last version. Now, Version I  says the royalty reduction receipts                                                               
would not be  balanced, which is contradictory. He  said the word                                                               
"not" should not be included.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-27, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELTON  clarified  that  the  list of  items  on  page  3                                                               
contains  the  reasons the  commissioner  could  deny a  contract                                                               
based on a written finding,  one being that the royalty reduction                                                               
would not  be balanced by  employment opportunities or  any other                                                               
tangible  benefit to  the state.  He asked  why this  language is                                                               
more  specific  for  the manufacturers,  as  it  further  defines                                                               
benefits as employment opportunities or other tangible benefits.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN commented  that if the state lets a  utility lock into                                                               
a  certain  price  and  the   state  loses  some  money,  Alaskan                                                               
consumers   will   benefit   with   cheaper   electricity.   With                                                               
manufacturers,  the public  benefit is  not as  tangible. In  the                                                               
original  bill, the  manufacturers  asked to  be  treated like  a                                                               
utility. However, Agrium and its  employees might have benefitted                                                               
but at an expense to the state.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. JACKSON  said that is a  fair analysis. She pointed  out that                                                               
language on  page 2, line  27, of Version  I includes a  bar that                                                               
the utilities  must reach.  The language on  page 3  includes the                                                               
bar the manufacturers must meet.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  commented that  in the  case of  the manufacturer,                                                               
the  consumers who  benefit  could be  overseas  and not  Alaskan                                                               
consumers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER remarked  that  one benefit  is  jobs in  Kenai.                                                               
Right now, Agrium is operating at  75 percent capacity and may be                                                               
losing  money everyday  it operates.  If this  bill helps  Agrium                                                               
operate at  100 percent capacity,  it will maintain  and increase                                                               
jobs.  He noted  if  one of  Kenai's  petrochemical plants  shuts                                                               
down, the  chances of it ever  reopening is very low.  He pointed                                                               
out  that Agrium  is  a big  part  of the  economy  on the  Kenai                                                               
Peninsula.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  expressed concern that  this legislation  singles out                                                               
one type of  industry and sets a precedent  for other industries,                                                               
such  as  the LNG  plant  at  Pt.  Mackenzie  that ships  LNG  to                                                               
Fairbanks.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARK  MYERS, Director of  the Division  of Oil and  Gas, DNR,                                                               
told  members that  in regard  to the  previous discussion  about                                                               
Sections (2)(A)  and (2)(B),  Senator Elton  was correct  when he                                                               
pointed out that  the royalty reduction is granted  unless one of                                                               
those four conditions exists, in  which case the commissioner can                                                               
deny it.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS asked  if the  commissioner will  have to  prove                                                               
that the royalty  reduction would not be balanced and  not have a                                                               
positive impact on the economy.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said  he did not understand  Mr. Myers' explanation                                                               
because if the commissioner can  deny the royalty reduction based                                                               
on the first  factor listed, the commissioner  would not consider                                                               
the  second  factor, that  the  royalty  reduction would  not  be                                                               
balanced by employment opportunities or other tangible benefits.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYERS  said  that  is  correct as  the  four  variables  are                                                               
independent. The commissioner  can deny the reduction  if any one                                                               
of the four variables exists.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  asked   Mr.  Myers  if  he   anticipates  that  this                                                               
legislation will set a precedent for other industries.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS said the petrochemical  industry could argue, as Agrium                                                               
has, that it  adds a lot of  value to the state  based on gas-to-                                                               
liquids (GTL) projects, for example.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN   asked  if,   under  the   Stranded  Gas   Act,  the                                                               
commissioner  of  revenue  was  given the  ability  to  negotiate                                                               
royalty payments for the petrochemical and GTL industries.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  answered the commissioner  cannot change the  rate but                                                               
valuation   methodologies  can   be  negotiated.   The  producers                                                               
proposed  similar treatment  to  the  previous administration  in                                                               
terms of their gas leases.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN felt  justification could be made  that this incentive                                                               
should be given to other industries.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS agreed  and said DNR understands  Agrium's concern that                                                               
it needs a good supply of gas to get up to 100 percent capacity.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  asked if more gas  is available but not  at the price                                                               
Agrium needs to be profitable.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  said supply and demand  is balanced at this  time but,                                                               
at current  rates of  consumption without  additional exploration                                                               
success,  Cook Inlet  will begin  to  squeeze out  those who  are                                                               
willing to  pay less for  the gas. Typically, the  utility market                                                               
pays  a   higher  value,  followed   by  LNG,  followed   by  the                                                               
agricultural manufacturer. That  will put Agrium in  a tight spot                                                               
when  deliverability  is less.  He  noted  that  a good  deal  of                                                               
exploration is going on in Cook Inlet at this time.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  expressed concern about the  differences between                                                               
Section  (2)(A)   and  Section  (2)(B)  [the   four  factors  the                                                               
commissioner can use  to deny a reduction], and  pointed out that                                                               
Section  (2)(A)  contains the  word  "and"  while Section  (2)(B)                                                               
contains the  word "or". Therefore,  all variables must  exist in                                                               
Section  (2)(A) while  only one  variable must  exist in  Section                                                               
(2)(B) for the commissioner to deny a royalty reduction.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS  indicated the original  bill contained the  word "and"                                                               
and he  does not know  why this version  was changed to  "or". He                                                               
said Version I in its current  form sets a different standard for                                                               
agricultural manufacturers  than it  does for the  utilities. All                                                               
four  conditions  must exist  for  the  commissioner to  deny  an                                                               
application from a utility.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said  he believes the statement on  page 2, lines                                                               
21-22, should  be changed because  he reads  it to mean  that (A)                                                               
and (B) fall under that statement.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. JACKSON  said the  issue is  that the  standards for  the new                                                               
manufacturer   are  more   restrictive.   For   a  utility,   the                                                               
commissioner  must   enter  into  a  contract   unless  all  four                                                               
conditions are  met. For a  manufacturer, the  commissioner shall                                                               
enter  into a  contract  unless  any one  condition  is met.  She                                                               
repeated the  provision is more restrictive  for the manufacturer                                                               
than it is for the utility.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said he understands  the intent but he  does not                                                               
read  those  sections that  way  because  both  (A) and  (B)  are                                                               
subsections of Section (1)(aa)(2).                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON said the bill  makes it easier for the commissioner                                                               
to deny a contract with a manufacturer than with a utility.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYERS told committee members  the Administration has taken no                                                               
position  on  the   bill  but  said  he   supports  the  proposed                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN removed  his objection  to adopting  the work  draft,                                                               
therefore the motion  to adopt Version I as  the working document                                                               
before the committee carried.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  moved to  adopt  Amendment  1, which  reads  as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page  3, after  line  11, insert  "(C)  in granting  an                                                                  
     application  under this  section, the  commissioner may                                                                  
     use or accept an amount in  excess of the price for the                                                                  
     gas  established in  the contract  but less  than would                                                                  
     otherwise  be due  under the  lease when  it is  in the                                                                  
     best interest of the state."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OGAN  objected for  the  purpose  of discussion.  He  told                                                               
members he intended  to adjourn the meeting  without adopting the                                                               
amendment to give members a few days to consider it.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  said Amendment 1  is a profit sharing  amendment that                                                               
will allow the state to share in any upside.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER   told  members  Amendment  1   was  written  in                                                               
consultation with Division  of Oil and Gas staff, who  said it is                                                               
necessary to allow the commissioner to negotiate profit sharing.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON  pointed out that  Amendment 1 will cause  a change                                                               
in the fiscal note.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER agreed  Amendment 1  will make  the fiscal  note                                                               
much more powerful.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OGAN  told members the  committee would  take up SB  50 and                                                               
the proposed  amendment on  Monday and  adjourned the  meeting at                                                               
4:45 p.m.                                                                                                                       
##                                                                                                                              

Document Name Date/Time Subjects